Not to be confused with the similarly-titled BMG collection for which I wrote the notes in 2001 (see below). If you're seeking the most of this splendid bubblegum band you'll need to pick up both discs, as there are six songs on the earlier release not on this mainly singles selection, among them the essential "1910 Cotton Candy Castle." But if only one Fruitgum comp is in your future, it'd be hard to compete with this 28-track behemoth. I wish BMG had been as ambitious with their own vault artists as Germany's Repertoire label! You'd have to dig through a lot of scuffy vinyl to assemble a comparable analog collection spanning the short, delicious career of this most infantile of semi-imaginary Buddah combos. Kicking off with the schoolyard earworm hits (including "Simon Says," "Indian Giver" and "1-2-3 Red Light"), the disc also spotlights the band (or its studio doppelgangers) in its jazzy, psychedelic and garagey manifestations. The b-sides are highlights (and a rare chance to enjoy band-penned compositions), like the growling bad girl raver "No Good Annie," and the Chinese psych-out "Reflections from the Looking Glass." Equally great are the retarded (in a good way) "Sticky Sticky" and the Link-Wray-in-orbit stylings of "Baby Bret." The comp closes with several scarce Italian-language tracks, from the Fruitgums' late, barely-noticed Continental phase, including the exquisitely spooky "C'e Qualcosa Che Non Picardo Piu." The booklet includes notes from John Tracy and a selection of colorful 45 sleeves, sheet music covers and oddities.

 Read Kim Cooper's notes from The Best of the 1910 Fruitgum Company. 

Jeff Barry's Bubblegum Blues
interview by Don Charles

"Some songs, like 'Where Have All The Flowers Gone?' people hear and they get sad. I think I'd rather have them get happy! That's really where I was coming from." That's how songwriter/producer extraordinaire Jeff Barry sums up his musical philosophy, a philosophy that moved millions of dollars' worth of vinyl around the world during the 1960s. Jeff Barry was the crown king of bubble gum rock producers (only Jerry Kasenetz and Jeff Katz' A & R staff came close to challenging his dominance of the genre).

Jeff Barry: I was born in Brooklyn. When I was about seven, my parents got divorced, and I moved in with my mom and sister in Plainfield, New Jersey. I lived there until I was eleven, and then we moved back to Brooklyn. For some reason, I was hearing a lot of country music. As long as I can remember, I've always loved horses, and probably without realizing it, I liked listening to country and western music because that went along with horses!

Don Charles: My research indicates that your family name was Adelberg . . .

Jeff Barry: Yes, that’s correct.

Don Charles: Was “Jeff” your real first name?

Jeff Barry: No, it was Joel.

Don Charles: So where did the name “Jeff Barry” come from?

Jeff Barry: The only reason I changed it was, when I started to record as an artist, I kinda needed a showbizzy name. One of the friends of the family’s last name was Barry, and I took that. The “Jeff” might’ve come from (actor) Jeff Chandler.

Don Charles: When did you first realize that you were musically-inclined?

Jeff Barry: I was singing and making up songs my whole life. My mother wrote down a song I did when was seven or so. I was just always doing that! In the 1950s, I went to Erasmus Hall High School in New York. The big thing there was singing groups, so I naturally was attracted to that stuff. I was the one who wrote the songs and did the arrangements for the (high school) groups. I was in one called The Tarrytones. We actually performed at a few functions and got paid now and then.

Don Charles: After you graduated from high school, you joined the Army, right?

Jeff Barry: Yes, when I was eighteen. I wanted to get that out of the way. It was in peacetime, and they had the six month plan. It was the Army Reserves; you came out, and spent another two-and-a-half years in the Reserves, going to meetings once a month, and going away for two weeks in the summer for more training. So I did that. I was stationed at Fort Knox, where they keep the gold.

Don Charles: [After the army], you went to New York City College, right?

Jeff Barry: Yes, NYCC. I was singing with my friends, writing songs, and making little demos - considering it all a hobby. But then, I decided I’d like to see if I could be a singer. I got someone to set up a meeting with a publisher who knew a friend of the family. It was the only person I could get to in the music industry, and it just worked out to be a music publisher. He said he’d be willing to listen to me sing.

Don Charles: That was Arnold Shaw?

Jeff Barry: Arnold Shaw. And if he thought I could sing, as a favor, he’d introduce me to some producers or record company types. But what I sang for him were the songs I was writing, and he was more interested in the songs than in the singer! Arnold signed me to EB Marks Music, his publishing company. Subsequently, he did introduce me to Hugo (Peretti) and Luigi (Creatore), and I made a record for them.

Don Charles: That would’ve been your first single, “It’s Called Rock And Roll”. That came out on RCA Victor. How did your recording contract with RCA come about?

Jeff Barry: That came about through Arnold. He introduced me to Hugo and Luigi, who were producers at RCA. So I made a record with them, and nothing happened with it; but when they were recording Ray Peterson, they called to see if I had any songs for him. And I did, I had “Tell Laura I Love Her." But I made records as a vocalist here and there through the years.

Don Charles: Your recording of "The Face From Outer Space" is one of the wildest things I've ever heard. It'd surely be a top tenner in the Dr. Demento countdown!

Jeff Barry: Oh, man! I was always coming up with nutty novelty things . . . funny stuff that people took seriously! I actually recorded this song. You know, there were novelty records out at that time, and this was a space creature, "The Face From Outer Space," okay? I used to do this voice (sings with an odd echo effect): I'M THE FAA-AAACE! It was ridiculous! Those were the times, but . . . did you ever hear of a record called "The Water Was Red?"…That was another one of my sick "death" songs (Note: Others include "Leader Of The Pack", "Tell Laura I Love Her" and "Give Us Your Blessings"). . . you know the opening scene in Jaws, where the boy and the girl go to the beach? She goes in the water, and the shark gets her. . .That was the story in "The Water Was Red", all those years earlier. It was about a boy and a girl who go to the beach, and she gets killed by a shark. He's a skin diver, and he tracks that shark down, and then "the water was red" again!

Don Charles: I've just gotta find a copy of that single! Let’s talk about some of the people you collaborated with on songs. Wasn’t Ben Raleigh your first collaborator? He co-wrote “Tell Laura I Love Her” with you.

Jeff Barry: Well, actually, before Ben was Beverly Ross. She wrote “Lollipop” for The Chordettes, and some other things. I remember having a lot of fun writing with her. It was all so new and unbelievable, that I could be doing what I loved to do. Sheer joy! (Then) Arnold Shaw wanted me to work with Ben because he had a solid, professional approach to songwriting. We’d start in the morning, take a lunch break, and then we’d go back to work, just like a regular job. It was a good work ethic.

Don Charles: Wasn’t Artie Resnick your next partner?

Jeff Barry: He was one of them. With Artie, it was more fun and loose. Artie and I were very good friends. (Note: Teamed with Joey Levine, Artie Resnick later became part of the Kasenetz-Katz stable of writer/producers.)

Don Charles: How was Ellie Greenwich as a collaborator?

Jeff Barry: Again, fun is the first word that comes to mind. We were a natural team!

Don Charles: How did the two of you meet?

Jeff Barry: Ellie and I have a mutual relative. There’s a picture of us when we were around three or four years old, at a family function. Her cousin married my cousin. (Years later) they knew she was interested in music, and I was already in the business, so they kinda felt we should meet.

Don Charles: You and Ellie Greenwich, and Phil Spector . . . what made it click? All of those songs you wrote for The Crystals, The Ronettes, Darlene Love, and Tina Turner are considered classics now.

Jeff Barry: We were writing for his specific recording technique - for his specific artists’ style. Knowing who we were writing for was a big help, as opposed to just writing songs. His artists were the kind of artists I write for, anyway, or at least the market was. It was the teenage market. It was just real simple and easy to write with Phil. If it hadn’t been, we wouldn’t have kept writing together!

Don Charles: What brought about the breakup of your production and songwriting partnership with Ellie Greenwich?

Jeff Barry: Well, we were married, and then we were divorced, I think, in 1966 or ’67 . . . around in there. Once we were no longer husband and wife, it was kind of a natural progression to be doing professional things separate from one another.

Don Charles: Did it feel strange, producing artists without her, after the two of you had worked together for so long?

Jeff Barry: I think I was probably more the active producer than Ellie was. I was more interested in doing that stuff, you know, staying up late and playing around in the studio. Not that she didn’t, but I think I was more into it.

Don Charles: I know you wrote some things with Marty Sanders, who was a member of Jay and The Americans . . . there was a great song called “Honey Do”, which The Strangeloves recorded, and another one called “Tricia, Tell Your Daddy”. Andy Kim cut a record on that, and it charted.

Jeff Barry: “Tricia, Tell Your Daddy”! You know what that one was about? Richard Nixon and his daughter. I was a writin’ fool!

Don Charles: Then, later on in the ‘60s, you collaborated with Ron Dante, Andy Kim, and Bobby Bloom. Bobby Bloom is one of the most underrated artists of that period. What do you remember about working with him?

Jeff Barry: Bobby and I were really great friends. As a matter of fact, when Bobby died, I got a call from AFTRA, the musician’s union. I never knew it, but I was his life insurance beneficiary. Bobby was a real character! Just a great guy, really, really bright, and really, really talented. He loved to write, he loved to sing, and he loved being in the studio, but he really didn’t love performing. Not that he disliked it, but he’d just as soon not. It wasn’t like he had to perform. He wasn’t coming from that place, which was really unfortunate. He was a great-looking guy, and the girls just loved him.

Don Charles: And what a singing voice he had! The album you did with him (The Bobby Bloom Album, L & R 1035) is fantastic. What instrument did he play?

Jeff Barry: He played guitar. He could play keyboards, too, somewhat, and was good on percussion as well, but mainly guitar. Bobby was the kind of a guy . . . he had this house in the Hollywood hills, he had a motorcycle, and a Porsche, and a car called Excalibur. Sometimes, he got really crazy! He once drove his motorcycle into his pool. But the Bobby Bloomness of it was, he left it there. He never took it out. It was like The Titanic - you could swim down to the wreck!

Don Charles: How did he die?

Jeff Barry: Unfortunately, he died of a gunshot wound. Somebody shot him, in a fight over a girl. It was crazy! He kicked down a door, and ran into the room, and the guy reached for a gun. I don’t think they ever found the guy.

Don Charles: How did you meet Neil Diamond, and how was he to work with in the studio?

Jeff Barry: How did I meet Neil? I think Ellie heard him in a demo studio. I always thought he was a great, great writer, and the combination of him singing his songs . . . it’s hard for me to picture someone else singing his songs. They were quite personal. It’s him singing his material that’s so unique, so powerful.

Don Charles: Toward the end of your involvement with Neil Diamond, you started up your own label, Steed Records. What was the motivation for that?

Jeff Barry: I had just gotten out of a relationship with Leiber and Stoller at Red-Bird Records, and it was time now to do it on my own. Simple as that.

Don Charles: Was Steed Records totally your company, or were there other owners?

Jeff Barry: It was mine! It was the first time I ever had the opportunity to do it all myself, without having any partners. It was actually quite a big thing to bite off. I’m a do-everything-myself kind of a guy, so I was trying to create or co-create the material, be the head of A & R, and produce all the records. It was very time-consuming; but we had three floors in a brownstone on 52nd Street, off Broadway, right off Seventh Avenue. We had three offices: My publishing operation, my record company operation, and my studio - it was called Century Sound. The studio enabled me to record anytime I wanted, without having to watch the clock. I could stay as late as I wanted, and if an artist wanted to go in and experiment, it was always available.

Don Charles: Did you have a regular crew of musicians that you used in the studio?

Jeff Barry: Hugh McCracken was the guitar player. Ron Frangipane played keyboards. Ron worked with me on (a musical), The Freaking Out Of Stephanie Blake. Then, Al Gorgoni was another one of our guitar guys, and also on guitar, Trade Martin. I had musicians like (pianist) Artie Butler, who went on to become very successful arrangers and producers in their own right. Chuck Rainey was one of the main guys on bass, and my drummers were Buddy Saltzman and Gary Chester. Gary Chester played on “Sugar, Sugar”, I remember.

Don Charles: Tell me about the artists you had on Steed Records. Andy Kim was the most successful, as well as being one of your main song collaborators.

Jeff Barry: He’s still one of my dearest friends. I met him when he was about seventeen. We wrote “Sugar, Sugar” together, and most, if not all of his records on Steed. I think we were on the charts for about two years in change; almost every record we did made the charts! The Andy Kim records, they all had something. They all had potential.

Don Charles: You worked with him at Red-Bird Records first. You produced a single for him in 1965 called “I Hear You Say (I Love You, Baby)”.

Jeff Barry: Yes, we experimented a bit. We experimented with a few artists at Red-Bird, but Red-Bird kinda went away overnight. A lot of the artists really didn’t get a chance to develop over there, and Andy was one of them. But it worked out on Steed, and then he went out and had a nice career. He now has his own label up in Canada, Ice Records.

Don Charles: His biggest hit on Steed Records was “Baby, I Love You”. That record has a great sound to it. Do you remember how you recorded that?

Jeff Barry: I played the drums on that one, piece-by-piece. I had an idea for a really nice sound.

Don Charles: Did you do that big percussion arrangement?

Jeff Barry: Yes. What I did on that one was play all the elements of the drum separately. I played the kick drum with a hand-held mallet. Andy Kim played the guitar, and I just kinda tapped along to keep the tempo steady. He sang the song “live”, all the way through. We used that as a guide track, and we were gonna erase it all later; but to that, I overdubbed, on separate tracks, the snare drum, the high hat, and the other cymbals, so there was no leakage of sound. They were totally clean, which is impossible to get when you play a whole set of drums at once. We overdubbed every instrument slowly, all on separate overdubs, kinda like the way “Montego Bay” was made.

Don Charles: “Montego Bay” was just you and Bobby Bloom in the studio, wasn’t it?

Jeff Barry: Yes, we played everything on that record.

Don Charles: How many musical instruments do you play?

Jeff Barry: I don't play anything well enough that I'd want to do it much in public! I can get around on the guitar, and I can play keyboards enough for me to write. I can find chords, and I can play, even though I don't know music as much as I'd like to. I've played all kinds of percussion on records. That's much easier because I have a good sense of rhythm. When I played the organ, I'd play the keyboard, and then I'd lay across the seat and play the pedals with my hands!

Don Charles: You had a singer named Robin McNamara on your label, who was a member of the New York cast of Hair. In fact, some of the other cast members sang backup on his album (Note: Including Sakinah "La La" Mohammed, former lead singer of The Crystals).

Jeff Barry: That’s right. I remember hearing at the time that some radio stations and some people in the business thought that Robin McNamara was a girl! Of course, his voice is kinda high, definitely up there in the tenor range. Robin had a very unique voice. He was a real pro, a real entertainer, and he certainly wasn’t shy! He loved to sing, and he brought a lot to the performances. He had the one big record, “Lay A Little Lovin’ On Me”, but I wish he’d had a string of hits. I think he had potential to change with the times, because he was on the cutting edge. A lot of the people in Hair were.

Don Charles: Other than The Illusion, a hard rock band who scored a hit with your song "Did You See Her Eyes?" the rest of your Steed artists are unknown to me. Can you tell me anything about Playhouse, The Rich Kids, Keepers Of The Light, Hank Shifter and Louis St. Louis?

Don Charles: Why did you close down Steed Records in 1971?

Jeff Barry: Steed Records had just run its course. The deal I’d made was for a certain time period, and it was up. At the time, I had two children, and we had moved to Long Island. Coming into New York from Long Island each day was really tedious! It was, like, three hours a day in the car. New York was becoming not my favorite place to live. I had come out to Los Angeles quite a lot in the mid-’60s, working with Phil Spector, and I’d always loved it out here. And so, at a certain point, the tug of Los Angeles and the push of New York just led me to move. I made a deal with Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss at A&M Records, and I had my offices on the A&M lot for three-and-a-half years. I recorded some things over there, and I just really loved Los Angeles. It was fantastic then.

Don Charles: While you were still running Steed Records, you were also producing acts for Don Kirshner. How did you get involved with him?

Jeff Barry: The music business was mainly in two buildings in New York: 1619 Broadway, which is the Brill Building, and another at 1650 Broadway. Don Kirshner was in there, and, you know . . . people knew people! When he needed some work on The Archies and The Monkees, he called me in as a producer/writer.

Don Charles: How much creative control did Kirshner allow you?

Jeff Barry: I would really do whatever I wanted to do. I’d run things by him, but I don’t ever remember him saying “That’s not good enough. Make it better!” He hired me to do what I do, and there was an awful lot that needed to be done.

Don Charles: How’d you like working with The Monkees in the studio?

Jeff Barry: They were great! But one of them I didn’t get along with.

Don Charles: Let me guess: Mike Nesmith?

Jeff Barry: Nesmith! When I first went to Los Angeles, I had a demo of “I’m A Believer”. Either I was singing it, or Neil Diamond, I don’t remember. It was incomplete, just the basic band, and the vocal. I remember meeting The Monkees, and when they heard it for the first time with Don Kirshner, in somebody’s office. All of them were there, and Nesmith had a girlfriend with him. So everybody said, “Hello”, and I finally came around to playing “I’m A Believer”. When it was over, everyone seemed to like it, and understand what it was - except Mike Nesmith. He said, “I don’t think it’s a hit. I’m a producer, too, and that ain’t no hit.” It was, like, real embarrassing. Real rude! Maybe he was just showing off for this young lady (and I do mean young). So it was kinda strange in the room. To lighten things up, I said, obviously joking, “Well, when I get all the strings and horns on it, maybe then . . . “ And then he said, “Hmmm . . . well, yeah. Maybe with strings and horns.” That’s when everybody broke up, because he obviously didn’t understand that I was just kidding. When everybody laughed, he got furious! So our relationship didn’t start out that good.

Don Charles: Micky Dolenz laid down a dynamite lead vocal on “I’m A Believer”, real spontaneous. How did you get that out of him?

Jeff Barry: I don’t know if I had to “get it out of him” . . . it just came with the normal amount of producing/directing. He just did a great job.

Don Charles: Your next project for Don Kirshner was bringing The Archies to life on records. It’s hard to understand why you’d take on a huge job like writing, arranging, and producing all the music for a TV series when you were so busy running your own label, doing musical theater, and everything else. When did you sleep and eat? It had to have been incredibly time-consuming.

Jeff Barry: It was all-consuming, but it wasn’t work. It was fun! It was what I would choose to do. It’s not like I collected stamps or painted in my spare time! Music was my hobby. When I stopped creating, it wasn’t good; not that the rest of my life was bad, but that was some of the best parts of it. You’re lucky enough to have a career at something you’d do for free, (and) that’s what I really loved to do: Writing the songs, and going into the studio with the musicians .

Don Charles: But we’re talking about a tremendous workload. What made you believe you could handle it all? Weren’t you concerned about overloading your schedule?

Jeff Barry: I was a lot younger, and I had a lot more energy. I didn’t know I was busy, I was just having a great time! Getting up early, staying up late, that didn’t mean anything to me. You know, a lot of The Archies' stuff I did in one week. You know all those little dance clips (that appeared) in each show? I did seventeen of those. Recorded, overdubbed and mixed, all in one week.

Don Charles: As you told me earlier, you were involved in an aborted 1967 Broadway show called The Freaking Out of Stephanie Blake. When I researched it, I discovered that not only was Ron Frangipane in the cast, so was Ron Dante . . . so you'd obviously met him before. Who chose Ron Dante to be The Archies’ lead singer?

Jeff Barry: I’m sure it had to be approved by Don Kirshner, but I believe I was the one who brought him in.

Don Charles: Other than Ron Dante, who did you use as vocalists on The Archies’ records?

Jeff Barry: Toni Wine was the first (female) voice. She was the main girl at that time. She did (sings) I’m gonna make your life so sweet on “Sugar, Sugar”. And then, there were others whose names will not come to me now. . .

Don Charles: Ellie Greenwich is said to have participated in some Archies recording sessions.

Jeff Barry: Oh, sure. That’s very possible. Ellie might’ve come in and done some backgrounds.

Don Charles: Also, reference books I’ve seen claim that Andy Kim, Bobby Bloom, and Tony Passalacqua were involved, too. You were working with most of them as solo artists around that time. Do you recall them singing Archies songs?

Jeff Barry: It’s very likely. It was that kind of community. My friends would come down, clap their hands, and sing. People loved to go into the studio! It’s fun.

Don Charles: Were the musicians on The Archies’ releases the same ones you used for your Steed Records dates?

Jeff Barry: Oh, I’m sure. It was all the same musicians, yes.

Don Charles: Tell me about how “Sugar, Sugar” came to be - the writing and the recording of it.

Jeff Barry: Well, I wrote it with Andy Kim, we wrote it in my office. Andy played the guitar. I don’t know where the idea actually came from, but it was a simple kind of “hitty” song. Perfect for The Archies!

Don Charles: A lot of reference books claim that song was written for The Monkees.

Jeff Barry: No. I don’t remember that being the case.

Don Charles: How long did it take to cut the track?

Jeff Barry: That particular track took two to three hours to get the groove just right. I had a certain groove in my head, and I wanted it to be layin’ back. Not rushing. For some reason, it took a long time. I was kinda dancing around the room in front of Gary Chester, the drummer, to keep the groove laid back.

Don Charles: “Sugar, Sugar” has a kind of Caribbean flavor to it. It almost sounds like a steel drum on the record.

Jeff Barry: It probably is a steel drum, and an organ at the same time.

Don Charles: The organ is the most memorable part of that record. Who played it?

Jeff Barry: I played it. Obviously overdubbed kinds of riffs on records, I usually end up playing. It’s got to feel a certain way, and I can do that better.

Don Charles: How long did it take to get the vocals?

Jeff Barry: I don’t remember, but probably not very long. Ron Dante is such a great singer, he can do anything anybody wants! He’d sung on so many TV commercials and things, too, so I’m sure he just got what was needed right away. Do you know about the way “Sugar, Sugar” broke as a hit record?

Don Charles: I’ve heard different stories . . .

Jeff Barry: The record came out, and it really wasn’t happening as a hit. What was it, the second Archies record?

Don Charles: It was the third. "Bang-Shang-A-Lang" was the first, and the second one was "Feelin' So Good"(SKOOBY-DOO)".

Jeff Barry: By then, I suppose radio was saying, “C’mon, guys! This group doesn’t even exist. It’s a little kiddie cartoon thing. Give us a break!” So it wasn’t happening, (but) the promotion man in San Francisco peeled the label off the record. He went to a radio station and said, “Listen to this.” They said, “That sounds like a hit! Who is it?” He said, “I’m not telling you! You play this record for a week in a good rotation, and then I’ll tell you who it is. It’s nobody bad, so don’t worry about it.” So later, he told them it was The Archies, and they went (groans) “Oh, no!” But they played it. They kept their word, and it broke for a smash hit out of San Francisco. That’s supposedly the story.

Don Charles: The next Archies hit, "Jingle Jangle" had a big, arena rock kind of sound. It was nothing like "Sugar, Sugar."

Jeff Barry: Yeah. I was always experimenting, never really wanting things to be exactly the same. When I had time to come up with new sounds, I always did.

Don Charles: The Archies' singles have a great bass sound on them. "Jingle Jangle" in particular. Chuck Rainey was a really good bass guitarist.

Don Charles: Did you ever play drums with The Archies?

Jeff Barry: No. Most of it was by Buddy Saltzman or Gary Chester. I probably did a lot of percussion, though.

Don Charles: What I liked is that you didn't "write down" to kids. Archies' music didn't sound like bad nursery rhymes the way a lot of children's music does nowadays.

Jeff Barry: I wouldn't have wanted to do it any other way! I wanted to make hits, I wanted to make radio records. You don't have to keep rewriting "Hickory Dickory Dock" for kids, you know? I think that even if they don't understand every word, they get the message.

Don Charles: Over the years, rock critics have written a lot of harsh things about The Archies’ music. They’ve said it was silly and sugary, and a waste of time to listen to. When you read things like that, did you ever regret becoming involved in that project?

Jeff Barry: (shocked) No! Not at all. To review “Sugar, Sugar” and the music of The Archies, which was created for kids, in the same light as you’d review music that was created for adults is ridiculous. That’s like reviewing a Popeye cartoon, and saying (pretentious voice), “Oh! The plot was so light. There wasn’t any depth. And that silly ending . . .” It’s absolutely stupid to review children’s product on a scale that you’d review adult product. Don't take a perfectly good tricycle and say it's a horrible mountain bike!…So for people to say “Sugar, Sugar” isn’t cool, my answer is, well, I feel sorry for you. It’s not my fault that adults liked it, too.

Don Charles: Around the time of the third season of The Archie Show (1970-71), which was the last season you worked on, you produced a group for RCA Victor called The Klowns. Do you recall anything about them?

Jeff Barry: I don’t remember all the names in that group, but one of them was Barry Bostwick. He became a very successful film and television actor. In fact, Barry came into my office one day, and he said, “Man! I just had an audition for a stage show, and I know I got it.” And he did! He opened Grease in New York.

Don Charles: Concurrently, you produced another cartoon act for Don Kirshner, The Globetrotters. Who were the singing voices on that soundtrack album? Was it the actual Harlem Globetrotters?

Jeff Barry: Yes, I think it was some of The Globetrotters. Meadowlark Lemon, and some of those guys.

Don Charles: That album’s a real blast! It reminds me of The Coasters’ records. It sounds like a bunch of crazy guys getting together and just having fun in the studio. (Note: The Coasters did appear as vocalists on this highly collectible Kirshner Records album [KES-108], along with members of The Drifters, Platters and Cadillacs. Whether any actual member of the Harlem Globetrotters other than Meadowlark Lemon sang on the sessions is unknown.)

Jeff Barry: That’s what it was. We all had a great time making rock ‘n’ roll.

Don Charles: What’s a typical Jeff Barry recording session like? Walk me through the process of how you produce a record.

Jeff Barry: It depends on the artist. As a producer, it would be my function to gather the material. If the artist writes - if it’s Neil Diamond, for instance - he’d write all the songs himself. When there was a collection of ten, it would be time to cut. If it was an artist that would co-write, I’d write with them; and if it was an artist who didn’t write at all, myself and people on my staff would do it. Once the songs were put together, I very rarely went into the studio with formal arrangements. I’d only have arrangements for overdubs with strings or horns, where you’d have to have them written out. For the rhythm tracks, I’d just hire great musicians, and go in with chord sheets. I’d play them the song, and they’d all learn it together. Then we’d come up with different parts. It was like musical finger-painting. I’d work with a couple of different engineers . . . I’d book the session. I’m the kind of producer who produces in the room with the musicians. I like to stay in there with them, get the arrangement down, and I’d wear earphones to hear everything that was coming through. Once everybody knew the song, and we were starting to get the track in shape, I’d stand at a microphone. I’d be able to talk to the musicians constantly. I could say to the guitar player, “Just ease up! Don’t play so many notes.” Or, I could sing something to somebody as I hear a riff. I’d be right in their ears, because they’d have microphones on as well. When it was really feelin’ good, then I’d go into the control room. The engineer would be getting the sounds on the instruments, and sure enough, the kick drum would be a kick drum (on tape), and the bass would sound like a bass. If I had some gimmicky things I wanted to do, I’d work on it then with the engineer. Then the singer would go out to the mike and sing along. It’s always best when musicians are hearing the vocal.

Don Charles: Why is that?

Jeff Barry: It always seems to work better when the singer is singing along. So whenever it was feasible, I’d have the artist there. If that vocal wasn’t particularly the vocal, I’d certainly try for more. When the musicians were gone, then it was time to really direct the singers, work to get that perfect, emotional vocal performance.

Don Charles: How important do you consider the part where you go into the control room and “mix” the record?

Jeff Barry: Well, after I got the vocal performance, it was overdub time for me. That’s when I liked to play! I’d overdub percussion and hand claps, tambourines, shakers, bells, and other little doodads. The basic track I always wanted to make with a few musicians - four, maybe five guys on bass, drums, keyboards, and guitar. Keep it simple and controllable, and not have to worry about other stuff happening at the same time. Then, I’d overdub all the details: Signature sounds, and riffs, and background harmonies - all the other things you put in a record. It was like putting the trimmings on. The mixing is important to get all the elements in the right perspective, and make ‘em all sound great. Once in a while, I’d add some tricky little echo things, but I usually didn’t get into tricky production values. Most of it was pretty straightforward. I believe the hit is made on the other side of the glass, where the talent is. Where the music is.

Don Charles: Of all the records you've produced, do you have a favorite?

Jeff Barry: Well, it's hard to name just one! Three come to mind: "Baby, I Love You" (Andy Kim), "Montego Bay" (Bobby Bloom), and "Sugar, Sugar". That was a fun record to make.

Don Charles: How do you look back now on that whole Don Kirshner era, and the work you did?

Jeff Barry: It was fun stuff! He always had interesting projects. Don Kirshner was fun to work with because he gets excited about songs. He's encouraging, and it's nice to work in that kind of atmosphere.

Don Charles: When you left New York, did you just cut loose from all the artists you were working with?

Jeff Barry: Some of the artists came out with me. I actually drove out here with Bobby Bloom and Robin McNamara in a ‘61 station wagon. Andy Kim was out here already. So I had friends out here from New York, and I took some with me!

Don Charles: How was the trip?

Jeff Barry: It was great! We were wailing all the way! Someone was lookin’ out the back window for cops, and we just kinda went!

Don Charles: So in the ‘70s, you settled in as a staff producer at A & M Records. Was the transition easy for you?

Jeff Barry: Well, I had a new life out here, a new way of living - California living, as opposed to Manhattan living. That took a lot of my time! I really was enjoying living out here, and probably not concentrating as much as I should’ve on the writing and the production. I was more like a kid, having a good time instead of working hard. But I had my offices at A&M, and it was a wonderful, fun atmosphere to work in.

Don Charles: Later on in the '70s, you wrote theme songs for several hit TV shows. How did you get those assignments?

Jeff Barry: I think I just got a call from TV producer Norman Lear one day, and I had a meeting with him. I did The Jeffersons theme, One Day At A Time, Family Ties, the Don Kirshner's Rock Concert theme, and several others.

Don Charles: The Jeffersons theme is probably one of the catchiest and most memorable TV theme songs of the '70s. You wrote that with Ja'Net DuBois, who was an actress on Good Times.

Jeff Barry: Ja'Net DuBois had never recorded before. When we were writing the song, I told her I loved the way she sang. She said, "Oh, no! I couldn't", but I told her not to worry about it, and we went in the studio and did it. "Movin' On Up" is definitely my favorite TV song. It just works for the show so well. (sings) “Fish don't fry in the kitchen . . .”

Don Charles: Then in 1980, you wrote and produced the soundtrack for a movie called The Idolmaker. Tell me about that!

Jeff Barry: I got a call from Taylor Hackford, the film's director, and met with him. He decided I was the guy to do the music. It took a year to do it all, and it was an awful lot of writing, but I wrote it all myself and ended up scoring the picture, too. I was on the set every day, right at Taylor's elbow. That was a great time! I learned a lot about film-making.

Don Charles: It's incredible, the number of people who sang on that soundtrack album who've gone on to be famous. Peter Gallagher went on to star in Guys And Dolls on Broadway; Jesse Frederick became a successful TV theme song writer; Colleen Fitzpatrick starred in Hairspray with Ricki Lake and currently records as Vitamin C; and Ray Sharkey became a very well-respected TV and movie actor. Even Darlene Love became famous, more so than she was, by appearing in the Lethal Weapon movies as Danny Glover's wife.

Don Charles: What kinds of things are you doing these days?

Jeff Barry: Well, I've had a multimedia children's entertainment company for the last few years with a guy named Richard Goldsmith. We have lots of kids' projects out. We did two albums for a series of books by Richard Scarry; a series of books called Clifford, The Big Red Dog, we did an album for that; there's a TV series (in development), and the biggest girls' book series out, The Baby-Sitters' Club, we did an album for. We're gonna produce a major motion picture with Warner Brothers on Frosty The Snowman, live action with animation (Note: This project came to fruition as the Michael Keaton vehicle Jack Frost). So it's mainly kids' projects. But I'm also working on a stage project, I'm writing a (movie) script with Paul Williams, and another script on my own . . . I've been developing all kinds of things. I'm concentrating on lots of different areas of creativity, not just songwriting.

Don Charles: But you're still writing songs?

Jeff Barry: Yes. I've written some country tunes that I suspect will be recorded soon, and I just finished one the other day for a new Tom Hanks film (Note: The film was probably That Thing You Do, but no Jeff Barry songs appeared in it). Everybody seems to love it, but whether it gets in or not, we'll see!

Don Charles: I understand that you've also done some things of an academic nature, too . . . some teaching?

Jeff Barry: I've lectured a lot. I've done a complete course at UCLA. I taught songwriting for eight weeks, and I did a twelve-week course on record production. It went over great! We had a great time, and the class seemed to love it.

Don Charles: What do you think of the music on the radio today?

Jeff Barry: I don't think anybody really cares about kids today very much! It's so easy to sell to the lowest common denominator, to sell sex and violence, and not try to uplift. I'm aware that I'm not young anymore, and I might have a jaded attitude, but I think I'm being objective. I understand that music changes, but in the overall sense, are things better now? Is music uplifting? Is it putting the right thoughts into today's youth? No, I don't think so. Here is something that reaches the ears of everyone . . . it's called music, and it provides a chance to do good. I don't think it's being used for that at all.

Don Charles: You're saying that you felt a sense of responsibility to your audience?

Jeff Barry: Exactly! I knew my songs were going to reach young ears. If you pump ugliness into them right from the beginning, then there's no chance! At least let them hear the respect, and then they have something to counterbalance when they get older and hear the disrespect. You build a foundation of caring and respect.

Don Charles: Here's my last question. How does it feel to know that the songs you've written, and the records you've produced have entered into American popular culture? You know, become a part of history?

Jeff Barry: It's so gratifying, and satisfying, and rewarding! I can't begin to tell you. When I was doing it, I never really looked to the future. I considered it music for the here and now, and I didn't think it was anything that was going to last. I was just trying to make the kids happy, talk about love with respect and not be ugly about it. And the fact that kids remembered the songs, took them to heart, grew up with them, and know them as the music of their youth . . . it's a thrill! And I'm so glad I handled it the way I did, because it is respectful music. You rarely meet the consumer when they're nine or sixteen years old, never have any real contact with them, and you certainly don't discuss what your music meant to them. The real significant thing to me was meeting those nine-year-old girls as adults, and to relate on an adult level what it meant to them as kids. That really got to me! That those songs were important after all, not in some changing-the-world kind of way, but in that they made people happy. That's a great power. It's really fantastic to have done that.

On May 14, 1999, Jeff Barry performed on stage at the Lobero Theatre in Santa Barbara, California for a sold-out crowd of invitation-only guests. This marked the very first time he'd ever sung "Doo Wah Diddy", "Be My Baby", "I Honestly Love You" and the rest of his classic hits in concert. I was lucky enough to attend the show, and you can take it from me: Jeff's version of "Sugar, Sugar", done to a reggae beat with three blonde babes warbling in the background like Bob Marley's I-Threes, gives the original Archies version quite a run for its money.

Interview conducted in October and November 1995
Special thanks to Theodora Zavin